Dear National Security Agency (NSA),

You are collecting date on basically every person on the internet. I have heard many people say "I don't mind, I have nothing to hide". Well I don't have anything to hide but I DO mind! Leave me alone!

If I'm not "doing anything wrong" then WHY are you watching me?

Here is the transcript as I assume this link will not work for very long.


0:00exclusive interview with average no NBC next0:07tonight0:07Edward Snowden's first interview on american television0:11former NSA director has said you have done0:14significant an irreversible damage the man who stole an essay secrets talks0:20about what drove him to do0:22sometimes to do the right thing you have to work and how we ended up in0:26exile inrush people gonna find it hard to believe0:29that president clinton hasn't taken run0:32you what you know tonight the man who insists he is a trained spy0:37I'm not gonna be scrambling gents to get a 29-year-old0:40packer and is wanted for espionage while insisting he's a patriot0:45you hear often in the United States why doesn't he come home face the music0:50from NBC News inside the mine up Edwards no1:00good evening i'm brian williams he is routinely called the most wanted man in1:05the world than last week in Moscow1:07cloaked in secrecy and after months of behind-the-scenes back and forth1:12we sat down with that word snowden for his first American television interview1:17let's begin with the reminder of what this 30-year-old has done and why he's1:21living in exile overseas1:24wanted for espionage in this country the classified documents he stole1:29downloaded from the NSA and handed over to journalists1:33blew the lead of data mining programs1:36that had been launched in the wake up n in the name of 9/111:40they have names like prism and boundless informant and X ke score1:45some other designed a vacuum up phone and internet data from companies like1:50horizon and Google and Apple on Yahoo and some of them have directed could1:55zero in on1:56any one of us snowden came to this interview clearly armed with talking2:01points ready to tell a story2:03he knew he would be receiving no compensation and no question was2:07off-limits2:08already just today based on pre-release snippets of what you're about to see2:12Secretary of State John Kerry launched a fall on frontal assault on Snowdon2:17calling him a traitor challenging him to come home to face justice2:21and in just a moment we'll hear what Edward Snowden has to say about that2:25he arrived alone2:29carrying only a backpack into our moscow hotel2:32he avoided the lobby came up a back stairway and into the elevator2:36and the moment he sat down in our camera focused in on him2:40it became clear that this was the first good long look at him the world has had2:45we'd seen em framed against that hotel window when hong kong is appearing be a2:50closed-circuit video from undisclosed locations2:54see but he was here now introducing himself2:57as and a lot of people would say you off badly damaged your country3:01I'd say can you show them is there any demonstration because I've been asking3:05the United States the press has been asking the United States government3:08for a year now if after year they can show a single individual who's been3:14harmed in3:15anyway by this reporting is it really so grave3:19is really so serious and can we really trust those claims without scrutinizing3:23I'd argue that we can't a but we should be open to it it's fair3:27the possibility exists and here this is causing serious harm3:31I personally would like to know about former NSA director Keith Alexander has3:36said3:36you have done quote significant3:39an irreversible damage to the nation he said there is quote concrete proof the3:44terrorist groups and others are taking action3:47and making changes and it's going to make our job3:51tougher and this amounts to telling our enemy3:54our playbook so what's interesting is that we see the exact same language4:00the exact same accusations being4:04leveled against whistleblowers being labeled against any credit coming up on4:08the program4:08%uh throughout history throughout time what are you doing in Russia4:12might so this this is a really fair concern are I4:15personally I'm surprised that I ended up here4:19arm the reality is I never intended to end up in Russia4:23I had a flight booked to cuba onwards to Latin America4:26I had ice stopped because the United States government decided to revoke my4:31passport4:32and trapped me and a Moscow Airport4:35I so when people ask me why are you in russia4:39I say please ask the State Department the US State Department says Snowden's4:46passport was polled be four he boarded that flight to Moscow and yet he was4:51somehow still able to leave Hong Kong4:54a city he had chosen to fly to initially upon leaving the US4:58a formerly high-ranking American official said to me5:03if Snowden's equivalent Russian kid was5:07in our hands in the United States we would be working mightily5:11to AB friend him and5:14absent that infiltrate what he hands what he knows5:20what has your relationship ban to the host5:24nation have you met putting have you spoken with pull5:27right so I have no relationship with Russian governmental I'm5:31I've never met the russian President arm5:35I'm not supported by the russian government taking money from the russian5:38government I'm not a spot5:39which is the real question the best way5:43to make sure that for example the russians can break my fingers and5:47and compromise information or or hit me with a bag of money until I give them5:50something5:51was not to have it all and the way to do that was by destroying material that I5:56was holding before5:57I transit to russia people gonna find it hard to believe6:01that president clinton hasn't taken run agnew6:04or what you know you can state6:07declaratively but that hasn't happened yeah6:10I mean the the Wii6:15the way we need to think about this is6:18again I ready now how to deal with counterintelligence beyond that6:22I took nothing to Russia so I could give them nothing6:26you say you're not carrying around any of these materials you have6:29handed them off if I gave you a laptop6:33could you access the documents6:38now know you could remotely electronically access materialists6:42it's gone from your control try I don't have any6:46control let's put it this way if I'm traveling6:50to Russia and I know I'm traveling through russian I know they've got a6:53very aggressive very professional service6:57and I look like tweety bird to solicit cat if I look like a little walking7:02chicken leg with all these documents7:04life I got control over that that's a very dangerous thing for me7:09we'll take our first break here and up next when we continue the impact of 9/117:14on Edwards no in 2004 I joined7:18US Army I was injured very early on in the program marcia7:23going back almost a year to when this story first broke Edwards Snowden was7:27defined early on and not altogether accurately7:32the president famously called him a hacker we in the news media passed along7:37and repeated terms like7:39Systems Analyst an outside contractor7:42that didn't really mean all that much and according to Snowdon7:46didn't really describe what he did for a living7:50how do you define yourself7:54are you were you trained as a spy7:58specifically I'm talking about this the titles8:02a systems analyst contractor8:05it seems to me spies probably look a lot more like and Snowden a lot less like8:10James Bond these days8:12well it's no secret that the US tends to get more and better intelligence8:17out of computers nowadays than they do out of people8:21harm I was trained as a spy and sort of the traditional sense of the word in8:25that8:25I lived and worked undercover overseas8:28pretending to work in a job that I'm not and even being assigned a name that was8:33not mine8:34now the government 1990s things they might frame it in certain ways and say8:38all you know he's a he's a low-level analyst8:41but what they're trying to do is they're trying to use8:44one position than I've had in a career here where their8:48to distract from the totality my experience which is that8:51I've worked for the central intelligence agency undercover8:54overseas I've worked for the national security8:58agents being undercover overseas and I'm work for the defense9:02intelligence agency has a lecture at the joint counterintelligence training9:05academy9:06where I developed sources and methods for keeping our information people9:10secure9:11in the most hostile and dangerous environments around the world9:14so when they Sam a low-level Systems Administrator that I don't know what I'm9:18talking about9:19I'd say it's somewhat misleading snowdon says his life changed9:23back when he was still a teenager on the worst day in modern American history9:29what did 9/11 mean to you9:32I've never told buddy this on journalist9:35but I was on Fort me9:38on September 11th I was right outside the NSA9:42so I remember I remember the tension on that day9:47I remember hearing on the radio the plaintiff and I remember9:51thinking my grandfather who work for the FBI time9:55was in the pentagon when the plane hit10:00I take the thrifts terrorism seriously I10:03and I think we all do and I think it's really disingenuous for10:07for the government to in folk hi10:10and sort of scandal eyes are memories to sort exploit10:14to the national trauma that we all suffer together10:18and worked so hard to come through to justify programs10:24that have never been shown to keep us safe10:27but cost us liberties10:30and freedoms that we don't need to give up in our Constitution says we should10:35not give up10:35then there is this way of looking at it10:39our nation had been attacked in this10:43nonlinear way10:46we were hurting post Pearl Harbor10:49herding why not10:53cast the widest net possible10:56innocent people around the country were10:59all felt the same way I've got nothing to hide we've gotta find11:04this enemy week can see the definition of a security stay11:09is any nation that prioritizes security11:13over all other considerations I don't believe the United States is11:19forever should be a security state if we want to be free11:23we can become subject to surveillance we can't play11:28giveaway power privacy we can't give away11:32our rights11:34we have to be an active party we have to be an active part of our government11:39and we have to say here11:42there are some things worth dying for11:45and I think the country's one like a lot of young11:48man in our country and especially given the fact that11:53your grandfather was at the FBI your dad's a vet11:58like a lot of the young man across America are you wanted to join a12:03and you did in 2004 I joined12:06the US Army under the 18 X Rick Special Forces Group program12:10now are I have to give high respect12:14to to everyone in the military and especially graduates or those programs12:17because they are better man than I12:19are I was injured very early on in the program and washed up12:23and you know I I readily admit I I don't like that so snowden reportedly left the12:28military after breaking12:30both of his legs in training but the fact is that I tried12:33you know I I saw what was going on in the world12:37I believed the government's arguments that we were going to do good things12:41in Iraq that we were going to free the oppressed and I wanted to do my part12:46to help share the National Park and create not just a better America but a12:50better world the problem was12:54as as time went on as I12:57Brize Bros to higher and higher levels and intelligence communities I gained13:02more and more access13:03as I saw more more class find information at the highest levels13:07I'm I realize that so many of the things that we're told by the government simply13:13aren't true13:13much like the argument about aluminum tubes and Western that mass destruction13:18in Iraq13:19colin powell's speech with the violet anthrax that saddam was going to13:23to bring against us %ah the Iraq war13:28that I signed up for was launched on false premises13:32the american people were misled now whether that was13:36too bad faith or simple mistake some intelligence13:40I can't say for sure but I can say it shows the problem13:45%uh putting too much faith in intelligence systems13:49without debating them in public when we have since will take another break here13:54coming up how Edwards snowdon says the NSAA can reach into our lives13:59via our phone just turned it on it can be there14:02they can turn into a microphone they can take pictures from14:06welcome back in the name of 9/1114:10the government was now able if they wanted to use our computers to reach14:15into american lives in American homes14:18unbeknownst to the citizens of this country overtime14:22Edwards know who says he started thinking it was a perversion of the war14:26on terrorism14:27whatever you think of them what Edward Snowden told us about spying on our data14:33and our personal devices14:35was chilling and as an example we use the phone14:39in my hand i want to ask about this device14:43this is not my iPhone this is14:47what drug dealers resort to this is called a burner14:50it's a temporary it's the 1i brought to14:54cover the Olympics because our IT people told me14:58that the russians are so good15:01at infiltration how good15:05and how good are the americans what can the NSA15:09do with this device if they wanted to get into my life15:14so first off that's probably be a the most expensive15:18burner I've ever seen her but I guess work the15:21upmarket I'm using tomorrow drug dealer job15:25this is the kind of say inert15:29right the the the NSA the russian intelligence service the Chinese15:34intelligence service15:35any intelligence service in the world that has significant funding15:39and a real technological research 10 can15:42only that phone the minute it connects15:45to their network as soon as you turn it on it can be theirs15:49they can turn into a microphone they can take pictures from in15:52they can take the date of it but it's important to understand that15:57these things are typically done on a targeted basis16:02right it's only done when people go this phone16:05is suspicious I think it's being held by a drug dealer I think it's being used by16:09a terrorist16:11can anyone turn it on remotely efforts of can they turn on APs16:16did anyone know or care that I googled16:19the final score of the Rangers Canadiens game last night because I was traveling16:24here16:24I would say I yes to all those they can absolutely time on what did with the16:28power turned off to the Vice16:30that's pretty scary but the thing about the Rangers game is also scare you might16:34say16:36does anybody really cater that i'm looking up the score for the Rangers16:39game16:40well government or hacker or some other16:44nefarious individual would say yes they're very interested in that16:49because that tells a lot about you per soccer tells you probably speak English16:54it says you're probably in american I your interested in this sport16:58and they might know what your habits17:02are where were you when the world when you checked the score to check in when17:06you travel on to check in when you're just at home17:08%ah they'd be able to tell something called your pattern of life17:11when are you doing this kind activities when do you wake up when do you go to17:15sleep17:16what other phones are around you when you wake up and go to sleep are you with17:19someone who's not your wife17:21are you doing something are you someplace you shouldn't be17:24according to the government which is arbitrary and how are17:27are you engaged in any kind of activities that we disapprove of17:32even if they aren't technically illegal and all these things can raise your17:36level of scrutiny17:37even if it seems entirely innocent to you even if you have nothing to hide17:41even if you doing nothing wrong17:44these activities can be misconstrued misinterpreted17:47and used to harm you as an individual even without the government having any17:51intent17:52to do you wrong the problem is that the capabilities themselves17:56are unregulated uncontrolled and dangerous18:00all because I don't hold Rangers Canadiens final score18:04exactly snowdon says he was astonished back then at the access he had his18:09fingertips18:11most notably including a computer program that18:14as he put it could get inside your thought process18:18the stack when I think about an instance that18:22that really just struck me it's oh my god18:26we can do this and that we can do it18:29anyone was there people in an essay analysts18:33can actually watch people's internet Communications watch them18:38draft correspondents and actually watch their farts18:42form as they type as %um right a message18:46you know and analyst at the NSA or any other service out there18:49that using this kind of attack against people can actually see18:54you right senses and the backspace over your mistakes men change the words and18:58I'm18:58kind of pause and and think about what you wanted to say19:02and then change it and it's this extraordinary intrusion19:07not just into your communications you're finished messages19:10for your actual trafficking process into the way you think19:14you must have been aware spying is sometimes called a dirty business19:18lives have been taken on unsavory deeds have been committed19:22the you know I don't think anybody who19:28who's been in the intelligence community for almost a decade as I've been19:31hi is really shocked19:36by the specific types half general operations19:40when they're justified19:43what's more shocking for anybody is not the dirtiness19:47the business it's the dirtiness up the19:50targeting is the dirty mess up the way these things are being used19:55it's the for lack of respect for the public19:59because and the20:03the lack of respect for the intrusiveness20:06parts arrangements when the president and others have made the point that you20:10should have gone20:11through channels become a whistleblower20:15am NOT pursued the route you did what's your response20:19I actually did go through channels20:23and that these documents the NSA has records they have copies of emails right20:28now20:28to their office and general counsel to their20:31oversight and compliance folks from me raising concerns20:36about the NSA's interpretations amendments legal authorities20:39now I embrace these complaints Manchester officially20:43in writing your email I to these officers and and these individuals20:47but to my supervisors to my colleagues in more than one office I did for me20:53I did in Hawaii and many many of these individuals were shocked by these20:58programs they never seem21:00themselves and the ones who had went21:03you know you're right these are things that are really concerning in21:07these are things that we should be doing maybe we're going too far here but21:11if you say something about this21:15they're going to destroy you do you know what happens to people who stand up and21:19talk about this21:20what did you report what was the response so I reported21:24and that there were up all real problems21:28with the way the NSA was interpreting its legal authorities21:31and the response more or less I and bureaucratic language was21:35you should stop asking questions and these are these a recent records this is21:41an ancient history one of my eye I would say wanna my final official acts and21:45government was continuing one of these are21:47want these communications with the legal office and21:51in fact I'm so sure that these communications exist but I call on21:55Congress to write a letter to the NSA21:57to to verify that they do right to the Office of General Counsel22:01and say did mister sloan hi22:04ever communicate any concerns about the NSA's interpretation its legal22:10authorities22:10now about that last point there about the paper trail that snowdon says exists22:16within the NSA so far NBC News has learned from multiple sources that22:21snowden22:22did indeed send at least one email to the General Counsel's office22:26raising policy and legal questions we have filed a request under the Freedom22:31of Information Act to look for any22:34other records and when we continue here tonight22:37the question are the secrets of the US military safe22:41I'm a human being I could make mistakes I can make the wrong call22:49and welcome back as we enter our second half hour as we continue to hear from22:52Edward snowden part of a wide-ranging conversation taped a week ago in moscow22:58we have already heard some extraordinary things but as you'll see he's not done23:03yet I'm doing this to serve my country23:05I'm still working for the government being a pantry means23:09knowing when to protect your country23:13if I could go anywhere in the world that place would be home23:19have what's known as last posting was in Hawaii23:22there he rented a house where he lived with his girlfriend and performed23:25electronic surveillance for the NSA23:28it was said he took his last position to gain access to the final documents23:33he wanted to steal and then leak how long prior to23:38leaving Hawaii did you start to say to yourself23:42I'm gonna gather this I'm gonna put this away I'm going to expose this23:48I think given the ongoing investigation23:52that something better not to get into in a news interview23:56but I'd be happy to discuss these things government what is the number what's the24:00closest you've come to estimating the number24:02love documents I will say the 1.7 million documents figure that the24:08intelligence community24:09has been bandying about are the director of an ass a himself24:14Keith Alexander said just a week ago and the Australian Financial Times24:17Australian Financial Review I believe I24:21didn't they have no idea what documents were taken at all24:26there are turning was so poor so negligent24:30that any private contractor not even a unemployed the government could walk24:34into the NSA building24:35take whatever they want and walk out with it24:39and they would never know now I think that's a problem and i think thats24:43something that needs to be resolved people need to be held to account for24:46has it happened before could it happen again what24:50didn't you grab was there a threshold24:53right I didn't want to take information24:57bed would I basically be25:00taken and thrown out in the press that will cause harm to individuals that25:04would have cost people25:05guy that would put lives at risk so a good gauge25:10path what information was provided to the journalists25:14is a representation what you see in the press25:17now if the NSA and25:20Defense Intelligence Agency and some of these other organizations have claimed25:24that lives are at risk but all this military information was out there that25:28arm you know i i took all this information about missiles and warheads25:32and tanks25:34but we don't see it in the newspaper me know we we we haven't seen any stories25:38on their25:39snowden turned over the secret documents to Glenn Greenwald a lawyer turned25:44journalist25:45and Laura Poitras a documentary filmmaker both at home traveled to25:49Russia for our interview25:51in his recently published book no place to hide25:54greenwald describes that moment he first met snowden in hong kong25:59what did you make love him the26:02initial impression was on the extreme confusion because I have is expecting to26:07meet somebody in his 60's or 70's someone very senior26:10in the agency because I knew almost nothing about him prior to our arrival26:14on hong kong26:15it was a a really intimidating moment you know it was a26:22it was the most real point26:26of no return because the minute you start talking to a journalist26:31as an intelligence officer I on camera26:35I there's really no going back from that that's a26:39that's where it all comes together also you had this tangible evidence26:43in effect he was saying to you if I wasn't legit where else would I have26:47gotten26:48this rate i mean that that was certainly Inc to a good start to establishing his26:53credibility and his authenticity was the fact that he was able to produce many26:57thousands are above documents from the most secretive agency of the world's27:00most powerful government but at the same time there are questions about27:04the authenticity of those documents the Providence27:07a the motives that led to his taking them27:10and what it was that he would say when he when he identified himself to the27:14world as27:14as the source by handing over the documents to journalists snowdon says he27:19wanted to put some space between himself and what he himself stole from27:24government computers27:25he wanted others to break the stories and do the reporting and check to see27:30which stories might cause undue harm27:33and that's the reason that the journalists have been required by27:36their agreement with me as the source although they could obviously27:40a break down to do whatever they want but I demanded27:43that they agree to consult with the government to make sure that no27:47individuals are specific arms could be caused by any of that reporting27:50that includes NBC News which has reported on its own batch of Snowdon27:55documents and has a reporting relationship with Glenn Greenwald27:59when it comes to specific stories about the %uh specific collection programs28:03about specific targets28:04these are decided by me these are decided by newspapers TV you see the28:09part of this and28:09and for a lay audience looking on28:13they know that this came from me you28:17the the balk release to the journalists28:20came from you they are guessing that you and decisions to make within what you28:27and access to28:29so then they hear you saying I didn't put that out28:32the journalistic right now that's a fair question28:36you know any anyone can second guess my judgment and you know again I'm a human28:39being28:40I could make mistakes I could make the wrong call but the reality is28:44the situation determined that this needed to be told28:47to the public to your knowledge there is nothing in what you've handed over to28:51the journalist28:53materially damaging or threatening to the military or national security28:59and and there's there's nothing that would be published that wouldn't that29:02harm29:03the public interest fees are programs that need to be understood29:07that need to be known that require deep background and the context for research29:11there29:12difficult to report but they're critical public importance29:16time just for clarification here note that snowden didn't denied turning over29:20military secrets29:22he asserted instead that they wouldn't be published29:25another break when we continue how snowden justifies29:29what he did there've been times throughout American history29:34where what is right29:36is not the same as what is legal29:39sometimes to do the right thing you have to break the wall29:44on the range between ticker tape parade and life sentence29:47what do you think ought to happen to you if and when you return to the United29:51States29:52these are things that no individual should empower themselves29:56tough to really decide I you know I'm going to give myself a parade30:01com30:03the but neither am I going to walk into a jail cell %uh30:06to serve as a bad example for other people in government Cosi30:12something happen some violation of the Constitution I think they need to say30:15something about30:16you hear often in the United States why doesn't he come allman face the music30:20it's a fair question you know why doesn't key I30:23why doesn't he I face charges30:27but it's also uninformed because30:31what has been laying against me are not normal charges30:34their extraordinary charges a we've30:38seem more charges under the Espionage Act30:41came the last administration we have in all other administrations and30:45I am in American history the Espionage Act30:49provides hi anyone accused amid but no chance to make30:53a public defense you are not allowed to argue30:57based on all the evidence in your favor because that evidence may be classified31:01even if it's exculpatory31:03and so when people say I why don't you go home and face the music I say31:07you have to understand that the music31:10is not and open court and a fair trial31:13what would you do if you had an audience with the president31:18right now what would you say I would leave31:23I advising the president to his advisers that so31:30I wouldn't presume to to to place myself number31:34the level tend to be able to suggest what his course of action should be31:38would you ask him if you come home free and clear31:44I think that's a decision that heal when I31:47and and decide based on what he believes would serve the public interest and I31:51think that's proper appropriate in your mind though31:54are you blameless at have you done as you look at31:59as you look at this just in good thing32:02have you performed as you see it a public service32:06I think it can be both32:10I think the most important idea is to remember that there have been times32:14throughout American history32:15where what is right32:18is not the same as what is legal sometimes to do the right thing you have32:23to break the law32:24and the key there is in terms of civil disobedience32:28you have to make sure that watch risking32:31what you're bringing on to yourself does not serve as a detriment32:35anyone out it doesn't hurt anybody else and if you're volunteering yourself32:40to be used as a negative example for volunteering to spend a lifetime in32:43prison32:43rather than to send spend a time in prison32:47a short period where your comment you advocate you'll emerge stronger32:51and be able to inspire other people to resist these policies32:55are you doing good or you doing bad legal sources tell NBC News that33:00Snowden's legal team has been in contact with the government's lawyers but33:05negotiations have not yet begun33:07are you looking for clemency or amnesty would you like to go home33:11I don't think there's ever been any question that I'd like to go home I'm a33:15knife33:16from day one said the I'm doing this to serve my country33:19I'm still working for the government now whether the amnesty or clemency ever33:24becomes a possibility is not for me to say33:26that's a debate for public and the government to decide but33:29if I could go anywhere in the world that place would be home and when we continue33:35an american in russia Edward snowden talks about what his life33:39is like now in exile and how he feels about coming home33:44I think it's important to remember33:47that people don't set their lives of33:51fire and in and burned down everything they want33:55for no worries33:59this is some a big cultural change34:03you in effect move to Russia from Hole WY34:07what is your life like you know it's summer34:10it is a a major cultural gap and it requires adjustment but34:15even I didn't choose to be here even though you know34:18circumstances really trapped me here34:21%ah I can adapt I can34:25lives life as an american more or less that's the beauty of the Internet34:29is that we're no longer tied to our communities34:32merely by you know while a physical connection side34:36right now I'm watching a show the wire or perhaps some friends process for34:41I'm really enjoy and second seasons October but34:44what do you make of the fact that president Putin's standing in the world34:48let's say34:49has changed so dramatically34:53during that time you have been here it is34:56it's really frustrating are34:59for someone who is working so hard35:04to expand the domain Cartwright's in our Privacy35:07to end up35:11stuck in a place where those rights are35:14are being challenged hi35:17in ways that I would consider deeply unfair there but the recent35:21bloggers registration law in Russia I I can't think I've any basis for a lot35:25like that35:26not just in russia but in any country the government shouldn't be regulating35:30the operations a free press whether it's35:33NBC or whether it's some blogger in their living room35:37there's so much that needs to be defended here in Russia35:40but I'm limited by my inability to speak Russian and so on and so forth35:44that its it's an isolating and frustrating thing and I really hope35:48debt I Russia the United States and many other countries35:53will work to push back against this35:57constantly increasing surveillance against this constant erosion and36:01abrasion36:01of public rights test crack me if i'm wrong. the archive your life is36:06you went from signing up for the military after 9/1136:09in effect saying you are willing to die for your country36:12to then telling people you half expected36:16to die via abduction her assassination after36:20what you've done in this instance that a36:23pretty dramatic arc sense 2003-200436:28I think that's actually a up36:33a solid representation of the dramatic arcs36:37debt have happened within our government and the same period do you think our36:41nation has changed since September 1136:43have our policies change has the manner of our government change has36:47civil in gage mint with the government changed36:50%ah have our politics changed our things and people36:53radically different in terms of partisanship under Ben radical changes36:57within our government36:58do you see yourself as a patriot I do37:03you know i i think patriot is a word it's37:07thats thrown around so much that it can be devalued37:12nowadays but being a patriot doesn't mean37:15prioritizing service to government above all else37:19being a patriot means37:23knowing when to protect your country37:26knowing when to protect your constitution knowing when to protect37:31your countrymen37:33from the violations have been and encroachments37:37up adversaries and those adversaries don't have to be37:40foreign countries they can be bad policies37:44they can be officials who you know need a little bit more accountability37:48they can be mistakes of government and and simple overreaching things that that37:53should never been tried or or that went wrong37:55did you say earlier you were still serving your government yes37:59how so when you look at the actions that I've taken38:03when you look at the carefulness of the programs that have been this close when38:07you look at the way38:08this has all been filtered to the most trusted journalistic institutions in38:12america38:13when you look at the way the government has had a chance to chime in on this38:17and to make their case and when you look at the changes that it's resulted in38:24we've had the first open federal court38:27ever review these programs declare likely unconstitutional38:31and orwellian and now you see congress agreeing38:35that massive surveillance ball collection38:38needs to and with38:41all these things happening that the government agrees38:45all the way up to the president again %ah make us stronger38:50how can it be said that I did not serve my government how can be said that this38:55harm to the country38:56when all three branches of government have made reforms as a result but39:01but many in government say snowden should pay for what he has done39:05whether or not he comes home what do you miss about home39:09a I think the only39:13the only I answer to something like that for some reason my situations39:18you know what don't I miss what would you guess39:21you know what what you miss I miss my family39:25I miss my home I miss my colleagues39:29%ah I miss the work because39:32caught up in all these issues people have39:35you know unfairly demonized and I say to all a point that's too extreme39:39these are good people trying to do39:42hard work for good reasons39:47the problem hi that we're confronted with39:50that the challenge that we are facing39:53is not the working level guy is you now some are some39:57mustache twirling villain was out to destroy your life40:00it's the fact that senior officials are investing themselves with powers40:07but they're not entitled to and they're doing it without asking the public for40:11any kind of concert is what I just heard you feeling bad for them40:15damage to the NSA as a result40:18love what youve exposed from the NSA but what you need to understand in him40:24what I was saying I I guess not what you need to understand but40:28what I'm saying is not40:32damage to the NSA its40:36the sort of conspiratorial thinking they can merge sometimes when we see the40:40Government has committed40:41real and serious abuses that lead us to think they can do no good40:46and the government does have legitimate programs and legitimate purposes in the40:50kingdom great thanks40:51be an essay can as well I think it's important to remember40:55that people don't set their lives on fire41:00they don't say goodbye to their families actually pack up without saying goodbye41:03to their families41:04%ah they don't walk away from their41:08make extraordinary extraordinarily comfortable lives I mean I'm a lotta41:12money for a guy with a high school diploma41:14com41:17and and and burned down everything they love for no reason41:22so you're a kid from North Carolina and while high after this interview I'm free41:26to fly back to the United States41:28new can't does that hurt you41:35I think nobody could no american Kirton41:38be prohibited from coming home Earnhardt traveling anywhere else41:42are without feeling since a loss but again41:48hi may have lost my ability to travel41:51but I've gained the ability to go to sleep at night41:54to put my head on the pillow I feel comfortable that I've done the right41:57thing41:58even when it was the hard thing42:01and I'm comfortable with that a good number of americans of course feel that42:06because of what they see as an active trees and they sleep less42:11soundly at night sharing this massive leak of Secrets has endangered the42:16country42:16and there is more on the way Glenn Greenwald says the next story he is42:21going to publish based on the Snowdon documents42:24maybe the biggest yet in terms of impact that is our broadcast for tonight we42:29want to let you know we're gonna keep going here in the studio to ask the42:32question impart to take on this same question42:35is snowed no hero or a traitor we have assembled our correspondents and former42:40government officials to analyze what he just had to say42:44and play some material from snowden that we have not yet aired42:48it will all happen on our website NBC news dot com42:52please join us there join the conversation it will start now and run42:56for the next hour and long after tonight's broadcast42:59it will remain posted on the web as a companion to what we've just seen43:03tonight